But, it led me to wonder... is the ACLU trying to destroy Christmas? Nothing on their website gave me any clues so I did some research and I found the truth..... they are indeed trying to ruin Christmas, and, America as well. Damn communist bastards!
If you check out these two articles What Is Behind The 'Hate Christians' Campaign? and ACLU Christmas haters . . . still trying to steal Christmas, you too can find all the answers! Also, the site Renew America.us is a bounty of useful information about how the godless heathens are trying to ruin it for everyone!
In the second article, renowned columnist, author, poet, and award winning photographer Kate Grogan writes:
According to the ACLU "Christmas haters" everything referring to Christ in public has to go. But try as they might, they can't take the spirit out of Christmas, something this group is in dire need of. Boy talk about selfishness!
And not to be outdone, Macy's has joined in the movement to take Christ out of Christmas, in favor of Happy Holidays, and Season's Greetings. Man I get steamed up enough when people dare to put a big X in front of MAS. Abbreviation indeed!
The Constitution can be read front to back, sideways, upside down, and nowhere does it read there needs to be a separation of church and state. Good grief! The framers would have been very dense or dumber than a box of rocks, to put separation of church and state in the most "intentionally" misunderstood document, and then proceeded to have a nation built on God and in every aspect of their lives.
I find it ironic, when laws can be passed making it mandatory for drivers and passengers in a car to wear seatbelts, while women can choose to have their babies killed in the womb. I would much rather see people having a choice whether or not to wear seatbelts in a car, above the choice to "snuff" out the lives of innocent babies who had nothing to do with their conception.
Where are you ACLU when you need to protect unborn children? How many lawsuits have you filed on behalf of 45 million babies who have been slaughtered since Roe V. Wade?
Since I am filled with the Christmas Spirit . . . I am going to wish all ACLU card-carrying members a very Merry CHRIST-mas, and a New Year void of prosperity . . . at least in court cases challenging the rights of Christians to practice their religion freely.
A New Year void of prosperity? What? That doesn't sound very nice. Hmmmm...
Kate Grogan: The New Face of Christmas?
And then I came across this lovely article about caring Christians in Colorado who have decided to send their message to non-believers as an advertisement wrapped in newspaper deliveries! They must save the pagans from themselves somehow and what better way than to trick the sinners who think they will be reading that morning's amazing "Family Circus" into reading the New Testament! Genius! The best quote from the article goes to Father Hater, er, I mean Hatler.
"I don't think getting the New Testament with your newspaper is forcing anything on anyone," said the Rev. Gaylord Hatler, pastor of First Christian Church, a Disciples of Christ church in Colorado Springs. "If we're going to celebrate diversity, then all of us should be able to celebrate everyone's position. But it seems that it's O.K. to be anything these days but Christian."
Amen to that! The dominant religion, by far, in the U.S. is being persecuted by too many non-believers and homosexuals!
I'll leave it to the gentlemen at Fightin' Words to point out all the flaws in my new found positions but for a night, let me rejoice in my new found clarity of vision: I am right! You are wrong. I am good. You are a sinner. I will refuse to believe that I wouldn't be just as accepting of my Sunday Paper if it were wrapped in the Koran. I will believe in everything that my new friends at Renew America tell me about how the Constitution really didn't mean to separate church and state. I will continue to be wrapped into a frenzy about how kids in this God Fearing land are not allowed to worship God because the heathens tell them they can't. How dare non-Christians tell them when and where they can tell them about their beliefs! I say shout it from every public school pulpit across our great nation under God. Ahem, so as I said, bring it on Fightin' Words!
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22 comments:
You knew I would post a comment on this.
"I don't think getting the New Testament with your newspaper is forcing anything on anyone," said the Rev. Gaylord Hatler, pastor of First Christian Church, a Disciples of Christ church in Colorado Springs. "If we're going to celebrate diversity, then all of us should be able to celebrate everyone's position. But it seems that it's O.K. to be anything these days but Christian."
I gotta say that lately I'm feeling like there is less tolerance for Christians and I have to agree with the above comment by Rev. Hatler.
It seems like it's okay to celebrate everyones diversity but if you are a Christian it's not okay to celebrate it.
I'm often made to feel like "I'm too smart" to be a Christian or that only backward,crazy people would serve Jesus Christ. h
It makes me sad.
I personally do not go around calling people who aren't Christian , Heathens.
MOST of my friends who claim to be tolerant make it pretty hard for me to share a very important part of my life.
This Christmas was very difficult for me because everywhere I turned people were bashing Christmas Carols or Christ in Christmas or nativity scenes.
tol·er·ance ( P ) Pronunciation Key (tlr-ns)
n.
1. The capacity for or the practice of recognizing and respecting the beliefs or practices of others.
New Years resolution
I am going to make a point of letting everyone know how proud I am to be a Christian and how happy I am that Jesus was born so that the world could be saved and how much He loves each and everyone one of us. Those of us who are too stupid to know what the true meaning of love and tolerance is and those of us who are too smart for our own good.
I am no longer going to hold back on sharing something about Christianity with others when those around me feel it's okay not to hold back from telling me what they think about Christians.
I am sorry I ever held back.
Around 80% or more of the people in this country are Christians. Therefore, they can't consider themselves a victimized minority, though that's clearly the myth the right-wing establishment is trying to sow now.
It's just like Hitler and the Nazis did in Germany in the 1930s: make the gullible majority think that certain minorities--namely Jews, homosexuals, Catholics, and ethnic non-Germans then, and Jews, homosexuals, and "secularists" now--are trying to ruin everything for them and take over the society that rightly belongs to them. ("Them" now being heterosexual Christians [especially white, native-born ones].)
Most of the people I know are atheist or agnostic, and not one of them has any problem with using the term "Christmas" or having someone tell them "Merry Christmas." However, in a pluralistic society like ours, it shouldn't be so hard for Christians to recognize that not everyone shares their beliefs, and therefore they shouldn't try to force their religion on the rest of us in every way they can think of. And here's the deal with people objecting to "happy holidays": overdefensive Christians, who are used to having their religion oversaturate every part of the damn culture in this country, get insulted because someone dares to try to be more inclusive and recognize that there are many holidays celebrated at this time of year, and Christmas is just one of them. It's not the inclusiveness that causes an uproar; it's this ridiculous sense of entitlement Christians have that makes them think everyone else should be made to feel bad or guilty or immoral for not worshipping alongside them.
I don't know what christians you have come in contact with but
many Christians recognize that "not everyone shares their beliefs". I wouldn't want to force my religion on anyone ,what would be the point? You either believe or you don't. I can "live the life" of a true follower of Jesus Christ by loving all and recognizing that we are all different. I can not judge another that is not my job, my job is to be an example of Christ.
Yes, what would Jesus do? he wouldn't force anything on anyone.
Like I said in my previous post all of this makes me sad this is not what Christmas is about.
Just let me do my thing and hang up my "Jesus is the reason for the season sign" without feeling like I'm excluding anyone or I'm forcing my beliefs. I like to think of it as sharing what I believe with others.
You can't blame all Christians for a very small group of insensitive ones and the rest of us shouldn't have to pay for their insensitvity.
jim, i couldn't agree more with your comments.
debbie, i respect you because you don't go around forcing your beliefs on everyone. you are respectful of other people's beliefs. i knew when i posted this entry, you might be upset, but there is nothing i can do about that. i don't agree with anyone forcing their beliefs on anyone else and since you don't do that, this wasn't aimed at you.
but since you have commented, let me say a couple of things-
>I gotta say that lately I'm feeling like there is less tolerance for Christians and >I have to agree with the above comment by Rev. Hatler.
I think there is less tolerance for people that are forcing their beliefs on others in this country.
>It seems like it's okay to celebrate everyones diversity but if you are a >Christian it's not okay to celebrate it.
Most people in this country are Christian! How is not okay to celebrate being a Christian? The problem is when people insist that everyone else follow what they want to them to follow in a public setting.
>I'm often made to feel like "I'm too smart" to be a Christian or that only >backward,crazy people would serve Jesus Christ.
Well, I don't know who makes you feel like that. I don't think I do that and no one at your church makes you feel like that, so who are you talking about?
>I personally do not go around calling people who aren't Christian , Heathens.
>MOST of my friends who claim to be tolerant make it pretty hard for me to >share a very important part of my life.
How so? I would assume that most non- religious people aren't particularly interested in religious stuff. But not being tolerant of it is another issue.
>This Christmas was very difficult for me because everywhere I turned people >were bashing Christmas Carols or Christ in Christmas or nativity scenes.
Who is bashing these things?
>tol·er·ance ( P ) Pronunciation Key (tlr-ns)
n.
>1. The capacity for or the practice of recognizing and respecting the beliefs or practices of others.
Exactly! I respet your beliefs and practices. But many conservative Christians in this country want the laws to make it so people who are different than them don't have the same rights. That I do not respect.
>New Years resolution
I am going to make a point of letting everyone know how proud I am to be a Christian and how happy I am that Jesus was born so that the world could be saved and how much He loves each and everyone one of us. Those of us who are too stupid to know what the true meaning of love and tolerance is and those of us who are too smart for our own good.
I am no longer going to hold back on sharing something about Christianity with others when those around me feel it's okay not to hold back from telling me what they think about Christians.
>I am sorry I ever held back.
If that is your resolution, fair enough, but I would guess most non-religious people are not really going to want to hear that because you would be forcing your beliefs on them when they are not asking for your religious beliefs. I have no problem with religion when it does not intrude on other people's lives. When it does, I have a problem with it. I'm sorry if you read my entries making fun of some very conservative people's beliefs as an attack on you and all Christians in general. It is not.
>You can't blame all Christians for a very small group of insensitive ones and the rest of us shouldn't have to pay for their insensitvity.
That is true. Of course not, I'm making fun of these particular conservatives. God forbid if people judged me based on Michael Moore's histrionics.
Who is giving you a hard time about putting out a reason for the season sign? That is silly for someone to give you a hard time about that. I say, say what you want to say. I still don't understand why you took down your religious post on your blog from a few days ago.
I knew your post wasn't aimed at me. You are one of my many friends who do not make me feel like I can't share my beliefs.
when I do share my beliefs it will be at an appropriate time. If it is a topic that is being talked about or if someone asks me a question about it.
But if I am sitting in a faculty room and someone decides it's okay to bash my beliefs (she's gone anyway, you know who I'm talking about) i'm not going to hold back. I would never,ever, ever bash what another believes. The audacity!
Whew! I'm gonna post on my blog now.
As a liberal Protestant (a rare breed outside New England it seems) I hold two of Jesus' statements in very high regard and use them to inform how my religious beliefs inform my public interactions:
Give unto Ceasar what is Ceasar's and unto God what is God's;
and:
It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven.
Therefore I am beholden to pay my taxes, keep my views out of the legislative process, and be generous with my time and resources in the service of others. I also like:
Judge not lest you be judged.
I do not have a hotline to God, not is my saviour 'personal'. My faith rests on the idea that Christianity is the spiritual force that gives me the strength to make the right choices even if my selfish self-interest says otherwise. The essence of this power is humility and an awareness that Christianity does not give us both all the answers and a right to compel others to listen to(or even respect) us.
I fear for the Falwells, the Ralph Reeds, the Bushes, the believers in Prosperity Theology and the evangelicals and born agains who talk of Jesus and God in the first person possessive; what they do seems to bear little relationship to the core principles of the New Testament (and in many cases contravene the 10 commandments). Still, if they have a good time practicing their version of Christianity so be it; the ultimate decision as to their fate will be made elsewhere (and they can always recant and apologize on their deathbeds).
Oh, and if we really were serious about celebrating Christmas as a purely Christian holiday, we would hold it in September when Roman census practices most likely indicate when Jesus was born, rather than piggy backing on the Pagan festival of Yule as a successful attempt to convert the tribes of Northern Europe.
Mind you, if the pressure on members of the Tribe seems intense around the Christmas/Hannukah rivalry a September nativity would really piss folks off around Rosh Hashanah....
Happy festivas, one and all. I'm off for a glass of Jesus Juice.
Weasel I agree with a lot of what you said.
Daniel I will answer your questions.
How is it not okay to celebrate being a Christian?
It's okay by me but others find it hard. We can't sing Christmas Carols or talk about Easter in school. Okay seperation of church and state I understand but it should go for everyone then. We are the punchline to many jokes. I can go on.
I am trying to measure my words as not to offend anyone so bare with me.
I don't think many people see the hard time we get because many haven't experienced it. As a Christian I experience intolerance a lot.
During book club meetings, we are portrayed as ignorant to others life choices.
When I do declare my Christianity I always get the same response "Wow...really?" I find that just as offensive as
"You're Puerto Rican? , you speak so well." It's the pre conceptions people have of Christians today as Bible Thumping lunatics, who preach nothing but fire and brimstone.
Some say when I say a joke I am irreverent but if others do their funny.
If I do show my tolerance for others and "confess" that I am married to a Pentecostal minister and am Pentecostal myself, . I get a look of disbelief. Which just shows me what they think of Pentecostals, Christians, Evangelicals.
By the way Weasel I don't like those prosperity preaching evangelist either.
But you are too smart to be a Christian.Who am I talking about Dan about 95% of the people I know.
Most people don't allow me to share my Christianity....How so?
By cutting me off when I get too religious and mind you I rarely bring up the subject myself it's only when I'm asked about it and many, not all of my friends become uneasy and seeing their discomfort I stop. But it's okay for them to go on and talk about how Buddhism has changed their lives and no one bats an eye. They shouldn't bat an eye but I have to be careful of not getting to into my spirituality which is my life.
Who is bashing Christmas?
Most of The Media and society . The media is part of society (sometimes)but you know what I mean.
Who is giving me a hard time with "Jesus is the reason...?'
Who isn't. Like I said before you might not see it as much because you are not a Christian and although Christians do make 80% of the population, it doesn't make it easier.
we have gone through our share of persecution as well.
Some people around the world cannot declare their Chrisitanity without being killed or thrown into prison.
I'm ramblin'
I'm not upset at you at all. You know there is nothin' but love I'm just expressing my opinion. I hope I didn't offend anyone.
Hi, Steve Peloquin here.
It seems like part of the issue is that even though a large majority of North Americans are Christians, there is naturally a wide range in what beliefs they hold and how they practice their religion.
Like Debbie, I feel that our culture somehow manages to give the impression that some of these beliefs and practices are backward and crazy.
A few possible beliefs and practices...
A. I celebrate Christmas
B. God exists
C. Jesus was the son of God
D. People go to heaven after they die
E. Only good people go to heaven after they die
F. Bad people go to hell after they die
G. I pray
H. I go to church
I. I study the bible
J. Abortion is usually unjustified
K. Gay sex is bad
L. Sex before marriage is bad
M. Using one of God's names as an exclamation is bad
A few of these are warmly represented in the media...
TV sitcoms and dramas celebrate and encourage the practice of gathering, loving and forgiving on Christmas day.
When loved ones are in danger and characters pray for their loved ones' health and safety, this is not portrayed as backward or crazy.
When loved ones pass away and characters think about their loved ones being received in heaven, this is not portrayed as backwards or crazy.
Others get a less warm portrayal in the media...
When characters give their motivations for doing things, those motives might be things like "because it's the nice thing to do" but seldom "because God wants me to" and there's a sense that if a character said the second thing, it would be uncomfortably close to "because I hear voices" or something that might suggest that the character is deluded.
When hell is represented, it seems to be in a comedic or science fiction vein and not represented as a real possibility facing real people. There's a sense that to believe in hell would be backwards and superstitious.
Family sitcom characters often go to church. But if Joey Tribiani or Chandler Bing were shown going to church, well, there would have to be some gag - somehow there's a sense that that would be a waste of a sunday morning.
Characters are seldom shown studying the bible and there's a sense that if they were, it would come with a message like "this character is unusual".
If there were a character with strong gay longings who chose to abstain from gay sex, this would somehow come off as stupid or crazy.
Sometimes there's a character like 90210's Donna who abstains from premarital sex. This was spun as a good thing - like "good for her!" - but somehow there was still a sense of "come on, reasonable people know there's nothing wrong with sex in a loving committed unmarried relationship".
My niece and nephew don't take take God's names in vain, and occasionally sort of ask those around them not to, either. And it seems like people look at them as if they'd asked, "Just never, ever say "Raisins!". Just please, please, never say "Raisins!".
I imagine that 40 years ago if you held one of these beliefs, you could talk about it, and in general the worst reaction you would get is "What a goody two-shoes!". Now it seems the North American consensus that these beliefs/practices are good isn't a consensus anymore and the reactions you may get are "What a dork!", "What a sucker!", or "Put on a burqa already."
Steve, you must never have seen the popular Friday-night drama Joan of Arcadia. God talks to Joan while appearing in disguise as a rotating cast of diverse people. I'll admit I've never seen a whole episode all the way through. But it's been my assumption that Christians enthusiastically eat this show up as a depiction of how (they imagine) God takes an active role in managing things here on Earth.
And don't forget former shows featuring angels as very real do-gooders on prime-time TV: Highway to Heaven and Touched By an Angel. Then there's 7th Heaven on the WB, about a family whose dad is a minister and who seems able to solve everyone's problems by talking through them with his wise Christian perspective.
You're right that shows aimed at a "hip" young audience, like Friends, don't necessarily incorporate religion in a reverent way (or at all). But on one of the two episodes of Desperate Housewives that I've watched, a priest told a character that if she didn't confess her sins (he knew that she had committed adultery), she'd go to hell. She didn't laugh him off, but instead sought to confirm that as long as she repented before dying, she'd be okay in the end. I'd say that for the most part, when religion inserts itself into popular TV programs, it isn't necessarily denigrated or celebrated, but taken at face value.
Debbie,
>It's okay by me but others find it hard. We can't sing Christmas Carols or talk about Easter in school. Okay seperation of church and state I understand but it should go for everyone then. We are the punchline to many jokes. I can go on.
Do we sing any religious songs at school? I don't think religion has a place in schools. If you want to have your child sing religious songs or learn about your relgion, send them to a religious school. Not only do we not teach Easter at our school, we also don't teach Yom Kippur, Ramadan, or any other religious holiday. Now if they come up in discussion, then we talk about it but it isn't part of the curriculum.
>Some say when I say a joke I am irreverent but if others do their funny.
What does that have to do with religion?
>Most people don't allow me to share my Christianity....How so?
By cutting me off when I get too religious and mind you I rarely bring up the subject myself it's only when I'm asked about it and many, not all of my friends become uneasy and seeing their discomfort I stop. But it's okay for them to go on and talk about how Buddhism has changed their lives and no one bats an eye. They shouldn't bat an eye but I have to be careful of not getting to into my spirituality which is my life.
I would guess that if a person talked about Buddhism all the time, most people would get annoyed. I also think that Christianity (whether it is fair or not) comes with the baggage of people trying to convert others whereas Buddhism does not, as far as I know. People recoil because they are afraid they are going to get the hard sell?
>Who is bashing Christmas?
Most of The Media and society . The media is part of society (sometimes)but you know what I mean.
Steve's comments are interesting on this front, but as a non- Christian in a mostly Christian country, I feel like Christmas (whether it is the right reason for the season or not is another question) is glorified beyond belief. I still don't see how the Media is demonzing Christmas.
>Who is giving me a hard time with "Jesus is the reason...?'
Who isn't.
I'm not.
>Like I said before you might not see it as much because you are not a Christian and although Christians do make 80% of the population, it doesn't make it easier.
I guess I don't have much sympathy. That sounds harsh but I can't get too upset that the dominant religion feels persecuted.
>Some people around the world cannot declare their Chrisitanity without being killed or thrown into prison.
Okay but not in this country.
And as far as people reacting to you being Penecostal, I think it is merely out of ignorance. People think snakes and speaking in tongues and don't understand it and freak out.
Steve, you bring up some good points. One in particular resonates with me. I try not to take God's name in vain (not always successfully) especially when I am around a religious person. This is merely being respectful for someone. However, the very same people that usually would be offended by this are the same people who get all offended by having to be "politically correct" about not being about to say rude and insensitive things about others. Whenever people make fun of having to be "politically correct" it seems to me that they are merely saying they are upset they can't bash others.
And if you haven't, you must check out Jamie's blog entry on the subject- http://www.balgavy.com/apes/archives/000872.html
Dan-
Okay you're not.
what's going on?
To my evangelical cousins in Christ who have been comenting on Dan's blog here,
STOP WHINING- ITS UNCHRISTIAN
People who practice all variants of Christianity in this country are by far the majority, regardless of what the TV portrays (and coming from England as I do, I find much of American TV overtly and sickeningly tritely religious) and this sense of perceived persecution is frankly offensively self indulgent in a week when upwards of 60,000 voices were silenced in a second.
Real persecution and abuse is being crucified. Its being made to fight lions. Its being burnt at the stake. Its being chased from your country. Its being slaughtered in a pogrom. Its being massacred at Wounded Knee for practicing the Ghost Dancer religion. Its being gassed in a concentration camp. Its being murdered in the millions for a belief.
Jokes on Friends or snide comments from colleagues does not discrimination make. And if popular culture offends you, get off your duff, turn off the TV, and go and do something positive in your community. Be the change you want to see. Faith without works is dead (James 2:14, I think).
Since when did a belief in the miracle of the sacrifice of Jesus turn you guys into cry baby, paranoid, blubbing, lily livered, professional victims? Shut up and do something useful instead of wailing 'poor me!'.
You're right Weasel
In the grand scheme of things I should stop my bellyaching.
It is James 2:14
What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him?
with all due respect to weasel and debbie,
i am more into this bible verse-
blog 12:29:
The more comments a post gets, the more smiles the writer receives.
Truly an epic post.
As a supporter of the two-time Superbowl champion Patriots, I feel that this year the Pittsburgh Steelers are spoiling the NFL season by being good and are detracting from the true meaning of the game, i.e. New England winning in the snow in January. In fact, I feel pretty persecuted.
Of course, you can substitute "Mets" and "Yankees" but the oppression is the same....
Hi, Steve Peloquin again.
It may have seemed from my post that I was an evangelical Christian. I'm really not evangelical or Christian or religious at all.
I did not mean to sound like I feel that born-again Christians are persecuted or abused. I just meant that I can see how they might feel discouraged or alienated.
I am not surprised that some of them may feel like others think of some of their beliefs and practices as backward or crazy, because it seems to me that there are people - numerous people, including numerous Christians - who do believe that some of those beliefs and practices are backward or crazy.
That's nothing exceptional. All sorts of North American subcultures have to live with the knowledge that lots of other North Americans find their ways backward or crazy.
The Hassidim have to live with it. So do the Amish. And the Christian Scientists. And vegans. And nudists. And UFO enthusiasts.
The born-again Christians could theoretically be comforted that while being the object of some jokes and some anger, at the end of the day their ranks include many, many captains of industry, many senators, and a current president of the USA.
The treatment that born-again Christians may receive may indeed be different than the treatment those other subcultures get, and I suppose that's largely because of the fear of how the born-again Christians in power will choose to wield their power.
Didn't Jesus say no one is good except the father? It seems to me you've gotten more than a little full of yourself, throwing around epithets like sinner, homosexual and godless like you're at the Right Hand yourself. Such arrogance!
giles,
i wish i knew what you were talking about. as a godless heathen, i'm too arrogant to comprehend.
if your blog wasn't hidden behind a wall of secrecy, i'd take a look to figure out what a modest person's blog looks like but now i can't. is that what a modest blogger does? am i arrogant because i let random jokers like you see what i write?
please advise.
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